Listening Materials

Section 1 - Greetings

A: Today's guest is Dr. Christina Gkonou, associate professor in TESOL, and the Masters in TESOL Program Director in the Department of Language and Linguistics at the University of Essex. Dr. Gkonou, how are you?

B: I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

A: I'm doing quite well, thank you for agreeing to do the interview at this time

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Section 2 - Background

You have taught a variety of different kinds of students. Can you talk about your experiences and which you prefer teaching?

I actually started as a language teacher, so I was teaching students. And, and that was not as part of any of the courses I'm teaching on at the moment. But that was, these were students like English language learners. So they were learning English as a foreign language or a second language, really. [Mm-hm] So this is how I started. But alongside that, I was also doing my Ph.D. And I was interested in research. And in researching the the topic I was focusing on at the time, which was language learner anxiety. [Mm] And I was going to conferences, and I could see how much I would enjoy academic discussions and being with other researchers, and listening to their ideas about my research, their comments and feedback. I felt I learned a lot from that. And I think this is how I became more interested in, in in in working in an institution in a research-based post, which is what I am, which is what I'm doing now. So my position at the moment combines teaching and research. But I would say it's more research focused, or maybe the– I'm doing some teaching, but there are lots of expectations from me and and colleagues who are in the same position to to do research, and publish and go to conferences and stuff. And so this is how I became interested in academia. Teaching is something that I have, that I have always enjoyed I think, and I find it very relaxing as well. And and of course, face-to-face teaching is something that I enjoy a lot more than online teaching, [Mm] because I think nothing can replace the interaction among people. But unfortunately, we don't have another option at the moment. Ah so and then your other question about which group I prefer. I don't really mind to be honest with you. But working with practicing teachers at the MA level, which is most of what I do, [Mm] and excites me the most, I think, and I do something to two undergraduate students, which, which is fine. And I like that too. Because of the dynamics in the class they're very different from my MA classes, but working with the MA students who are practicing teachers, and apart from the psychology module, I do teaching practice with them, and lesson planning and classroom management and research skills. And I like this combination of topics and the fact that they are here and they are receiving training to become English language teachers. Most of them go back home and they they work as language as English language teachers in their home country. So it's really, it it's different. It's different types of groups. I do I enjoy both. But I think I prefer practicing teachers, working with teachers.

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Section 3–Teaching experiences

Have you ever had any negative experiences as a teacher trainer?

The program is the MA program the MA TESOL program here at Essex is both for inexperienced [Mm] or less experienced teachers, but also for experienced teachers. And what we do is in the second term, we have two pathways, and the teachers are the teachers follow, let's say the pathway that is for them according to the teaching experience that they already have. But in the first term, they are all together [Mm] in the same class and in the same group and they take the same modules. And I can sometimes understand who knows something quite well and who doesn't and needs more support. I haven't been challenged openly in class as part of this role because we use a system here in which the course director–myself in this case–meets the students and talks to them and explains things to them. So I think that by making clear, by making everything clear right from the start, it is very helpful. But I remember being challenged in the past when I was working as an English language teacher here. And perhaps a critical incident for me when I was challenged by a student in class about my age. And, and you know, things like that, not necessarily the way I was teaching, you know, [Hm] so perhaps for me, that was a critical incident. So that was something that I was thinking about after the class and maybe a few days after the class. But in terms of, you know, having more experienced teachers in the class and challenging me, I think I've learned how to handle that. So maybe through all these little chats, the one to one meetings, and and by giving some good answers in class during the lesson. he thing is that, so far, the the people that have more experience than our on our MA TESOL course are the ones that are usually silent and appreciate what we do.

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Section 4–Emotions and feelings

In your research, you say that emotions and feelings are different. Can you explain more about that? 

Yeah. And we felt that it was important to clarify the difference between emotions and feelings, because as we say, on this page, before the extract that you have just read out, we actually say that most people tend  to use the words emotions and feelings interchangeably, [Mm] or they see them as synonyms, maybe, words that have exactly the same meaning. But that's not right. Maybe in everyday speech, when we do not, when we do not discuss emotions within this particular context of psychology, but the let's say we talk with a friend about how we felt about something, maybe within this informal context, we can use these words interchangeably, but when we are talking about approaches to understanding emotions, and researching emotions, and so on, which is the focus of this book, we need to make sure that we understand the difference between emotions and feelings. And yeah, emotions are things we can see. That is why we say physical manifestations. [Mm] OK, I know that some people might contest that. They might say that, well, some of us are very good at hiding our emotions or we know how to do that so you can't always see how you can't always see our emotion. I know that people will contest that but in order to understand the difference between the two, we can say that emotions are physical manifestations of how we feel. And this is why they lead or this is how they lead to feelings. So they are different.

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Section 5 - Life lessons

What have you learned in your time as a university professor?

What I have learned throughout the years is how to best manage my time. [Mm] I think I was doing that OK anyway, but I can tell that I'm doing much better now. And I have learned, I have learned how to manage time, how to prioritize tasks, and also how much time I should devote to each task. So I'm not sure if everybody can do that, because they might be handling tasks that are more demanding than what I have at the moment. But I try to evaluate in advance how much time I should devote something, depending on its nature, depending on how important it is, who it relates to and so on. And so that was one thing I have learned. And the other thing that I have learned is that, at the beginning, when I joined the department in this research position, I was trying to do everything at the same time, to stay online until late, to to answer all the emails, maybe spend some time during the weekend to finish something. But I have learned to be more relaxed now. [Mm] And understand that things can also wait. So you don't always have to finish something. And you know when this makes you stressed and this takes away time that you might want to spend with your family, etc. So again, this is something that I have learned, which I think is very closely linked to what I mentioned earlier: time management. And you learn as you go along to complete tasks quicker and to be more efficient. And I think this is something you learned through experience.

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Section 6 - Goodbye

A: Than–thank you again for coming on the show and best of luck with your teaching and research this term and year.

B: Thank you.

Section 1 - Greeting (00:00 - 

A: Joining us today is Dr. Nobuyuki Hino, who is a professor of language and culture at Osaka University. Very nice to make your acquaintance, Professor.

B: Well, thank you. Thank you, Dr. Haswell, or Chris sensei. I'm glad to be here. And I feel really honored to to be on your program. Thank you.

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Section 2 - Background

Can you tell us something about your background in this research?

Well, it’s a long story. Let's see. Well, it goes back to exactly 50 years ago. 1970. It's the year the the Beatles disbanded. Are you from the UK? Right? Right? 

Yes, I am. 

Great. Yeah. Great music band from your country. Yeah. So what happened in 1970. So the dis– disbanding of The Beatles, and also, the book by Kunihiro Masao. Kunihiro Masao is a pioneer Japanese simultaneous interpreter, and also a cultural anthropologist. And he wrote a book in 1970 Eigo no Hanashikata, the English title is English Works for You. So he wrote it in Japanese, and he discussed it, what he discussed there was the, what he called eigo no datsu eibeika. That's, he later translated it, like, the Anglo-Americanization of English. So it so he argued that the Anglo-Americanization of English is occurring. And also he talked about the diversification of English or varieties of English. So, and on top of that, he claimed that, well, Japanese English should be valuable as a means of communicating or representing Japanese values, or East Asian values. OK, so I was just a first-year junior high school student. I was 12 at that time, so I didn't understand what he was talking about, but I intuitively felt something must be there, something important. Later in senior high school, I encountered another book, this time by a book by Suzuki Takao. And in that 1975 book, he discussed his concept of “Englic.”. “Englic”is also international English, the Anglo-Americanized English for international communication, OK. And Suzuki Takao also argued that Japanese English should be valued as a for expressing Japanese culture or Japanese values, or international means of communication for Japanese people. And so those two books had a great impact on me, although first I didn't understand what they were really talking about. By the way, interestingly, those two books became bestsellers in Japan. [Yes] See, this is very, something very interesting about Japan. Already in the 1970s, the general public was exposed to the idea of English as an international language.

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Section 3 - Research approach

What is your approach to research?

Well, my belief is research should not be for research’s own sake, OK. Research has social responsibility. And for our area of English language teaching or ELT, it should have pedagogical benefit. It it should go to do to [(recording is cut a little here)] students, or teachers. I really take it for granted that our research should have some some practical benefit for students and teachers. And in some way, actually, when I say practical benefit, I also include spiritual benefit. So if I may say this, because I mentioned the Beatles, Beatles just a few minutes earlier, my ultimate goal is to increase love and peace, actually. So our research and our teaching should increase love and peace in this world, ultimately. So for that for that goal for that goal towards that goal, our our research should have some, well, pedagogical benefit on the way.

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Section 4 -  Englishes and nationalism

What do people who don’t research language need to know about worldwide English use?

So first of all, we should be careful about any categorization. Okay, not only nation-state framework. Once we categorize something, we we could have, unless we are very careful, we could have well stereotyping and labeling and even othering. Right? So there's that danger. That’s the inherent danger of any categorization. The especially the nation-state framework. Well, Japan has a very negative history a–about English language teaching from that viewpoint. Look at the English language textbooks during World War Two in Japan. Textbooks were limited in those days in wartime. And the America was enemy Britain was enemy still still out there were English textbooks, well, but the content was the content was they try to exclude Anglo-American culture. And they try to uphold the superiority of Japanese culture, th–th–, so that was an ethnocentric textbook, [Mm-hm] although it was English for Japanese values, OK, in a sense, in a sense, because they expressed they replaced American English, British names with Japanese names like a Hanako, and things like that. [Right] And content was like, we pray for the brave Japanese soldiers. So in a way, it's a represent representation of Japanese values. But but the but it's not EIL as far as I'm concerned, this is not EIL textbook because EIL has to be based on the balanced view of cultures. [Right] So prejudice against other cultures is the farthest away from EIL. In that way, so nationalism really worked negatively against EIL. But on the other hand, as we as we have been talking about nationalism in the Outer Circle, you mentioned or post-colonial environment, was a driving force really driving force for standing up for their local Englishes. It's really a double-edged sword.

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Section 5 - EIL and testing

Does an International English approach cause a problem with language testing?

Firstly, we shouldn't be worri– too too too worried about testing, right? Because testing is, in a way about results. And we should be more concerned with teaching first, and then testing. So if we say because testing is difficult, we should not do this. That's the other way around, really OK. So, yeah, well, anyway, I do respect testing experts, they are doing a wonderful job. And because testing today is a really specialized area, I often refrain from commenting on testing because because there are real experts on that, but, but if I may comment on this a a little think of the yes testing of EIL is a, well, complicated one or complex one, but it should be possible. What is required is the widening of the scope, diversification of standards, but it should not be really impossible. For example, a well about testing for receptive skills, tasks involving varieties varieties of English can be given such as listening comprehension questions on conversations between, say, Chinese English and Brazilian English talking about Greek culture or something like that, OK? And in th– in that case, scopes of exams are widened really, with respect to linguistic and cultural aspects, the basically the same methods of testing should be applicable. hey can be used in my understanding, [Mm] as in conventional testing in American and British English. And for productive skills, which concern MJ (model of Japanese English) that you mentioned, well criteria also need to be liberalized to allow for diversity. So for example, in writing in test of writing, a Japanese style of text organization may be accepted in writing in EIL. This kind of thing will make the job of examiners much more complex, but it's not impossible. OK, that's how I see it. And if I may add one more thing. I think probably the most difficult part is to test the communication skills, interactive skills in EIL. [Mm-hm] Really, that's the key for English as a lingua franca, especially ELF: how can you measure their communication strategies. Well we've been doing in a  subjective way, but how can we do that more objectively? That's that’s really a task we may be faced with. Let me add one more thing. I think we are familiar with the EIKEN EIKEN first-grade test Step Test. [Mm-hm] Well, for the international audience, it’s it’s a st– indigenous Japanese standardized test, OK, of English. [Mm-hm] The highest, let’s see, first Step Test, interview is given in the second round. And the examiners are usually one native speaker, so one one examiner from the Inner Circle and one examiner from Japan. Japanese examiner plus American examiner or British examiner Canadian examiner [Mm-hm, mm-hm] and so so on. I always wish we if we could have if the budget allows if we could have one more examiner, maybe from the Expanding Circle or the Outer Circle. [Mm-hm] So examiner from India examiner from Thai, something like that. Those three examiners would make a very good team in terms of EIL and World Englishes. 

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Section 6

What are your ideas for the future in this research field?

I think we should continue with what we are doing now. Well, we should publish more on the teaching of EIL and ELF and World Englishes. The thing is traditionally, World English scholars and also EIL scholars were more interested in theoretical aspects, and pedagogical practice in a wider scale began just maybe a a decade ago or so something like that–rather recent, although it's really in full bloom now. Oh, well, anyway, so we should continue with this pedagogical application of EIL and World Englishes, ELF to actual classroom. We should write reports and give presentations on our pedagogical practice and share with other teachers. And we should develop materials in EIL, and many other things. We should do what we can do and we should continue​

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Section 7

A: Thank you very much for your time today.

B: Well, thank you, Chris sensei. My pleasure.